Carling Cup Thread

Fans of premiership teams should watch the Swansea V Cardiff game tonight and make notes on how to support a team. The game itself should be a humdinger!

I just got fleeced 40 quid to go watch United reserves vs Boro. I think I can qualify as a real fan after that!

3-0 up a half time. Nice.

Fuck me Pogatetz need a lengthy ban after that tackle, it was horrible. Poor Possebon looked in bits after it.

We are continuing are march to wembley with a good win over them Monkey Hangers.

I'm still pinching myself on the back of how well we played last night. The lad's were absolutely sublime, and that is an understatement with my obvious bias thrown on to dampen it an ickle for good measure. Carlos Vela, what more can I say? Hat trick and another super performance from the lad after finally getting his shot. His second goal in particular, cheeky flick and then a cheeky lob; Arsene's toil to get him here is already baring fruit and with Bendtner hitting form too it's getting very exciting upfront when you chuck in Walcott, RVP, Eduardo returning and Ade. Little Jack Wilshere getting on the score sheet and buzzing. I've been bigging up alot of these lad's to my friends for a while now (mostly to chuckles; 'Wenger playing an English lad') and it's great to be able to back up that faith with the statement the lad's put out last night.

Must be gutting for those that passed up going to this game what with it costing a tenner. Then the double sickener for those sitting at home that the game was kept off telly until the midnight replay on ATV. Not that I give much sympathy, I offered a few of my mates the chance to go with myself and the younger brother and it was shot down and peed on as 'it's only the Carling Cup'. Tell that to our frigging team last night. If only the atmosphere matched the performance at The Grove, but like Stealer's dig at the top, that isn't really going to change anytime soon.

MarkFromGoldenplec wrote:I just got fleeced 40 quid to go watch United reserves vs Boro. I think I can qualify as a real fan after that!

You qualify as a mug, that's for sure!

Seconded

Have to feel sorry for the sheff utd fans who travelled down. I have to admit to not being a great fan of Arsenal's rape the rest of Europe approach after what happened to us with Defoe. It does make you wonder how it's going to affect these kids, the majority of them would of been legends at their clubs and will instead start their career knowing they weren't good enough. Obviously sometimes this is beneficial but the best players like Ronaldo, Ballack and Kaka all started at small clubs in their home country. Anyone remember Sonny Pike? It's also strange that it's been a while since the FA youth cup was won by the gooners. Man City won it last season and their kids were looking good against Portsmouth.

Great result for you last night though, makes you wonder how they would fair against the 1st team!

Was a good result, but dont get carried away, Sheffield Utd are a very very poor side, with a poor manager, can only beat whats in front of you I guess, but when you have a pile of poo in front of you, it isnt that hard!

Still I cant talk, expecting a thrashing at the hands of Wigan tonight.

MarkFromGoldenplec wrote:Fuck me Pogatetz need a lengthy ban after that tackle, it was horrible. Poor Possebon looked in bits after it.

Bloody right man it was a shocking tackle!

Yet again I missed you Clarkey! So many free seats that a whole group of us got to go last night and what a game to go to!

Only disappointment is that we don't get to see the look on Warnock's face cos he was selfish enough to leave before we gave them the spanking Paddy Kenny had stopped them from getting for years.

Interesting that Warnock was there, I know he's a fan but surely it's a bit unprofessional?

Read what I said again dear. I said it was a shame he left... i.e. left Sheff Utd.

The last time we faced them, and the time before that, and the time before that, and the time before that they snatched results because of Kenny playing out of his socks (and other somewhat undesirable tactics). I was saying it was a shame Warnock wasn't around when that plan failed.

Fuck sake.

What? I don't like him. Want to see him taken down a peg. End of.

Then again he does live in Croydon now... maybe he's suffered enough.

The Real JK wrote:Then again he does live in Croydon now... maybe he's suffered enough.

I got a travel guide with my Palace away ticket, which is pretty offensive but regardless of that it had recommended pubs, a guide to hotels in Croydon and a travel guide, include the quote 'We don't have a tube station but you can get a bus from Brixton.'

ShowStealer wrote:

The Real JK wrote:Then again he does live in Croydon now... maybe he's suffered enough.

I got a travel guide with my Palace away ticket, which is pretty offensive but regardless of that it had recommended pubs, a guide to hotels in Croydon and a travel guide, include the quote 'We don't have a tube station but you can get a bus from Brixton.'

Well you know what Dante said about you having to pass through several layers of hell to get to the main bit...

On the Youth Cup front, the blame can quite easily be placed on Wenger's shoulders. Depending which way you look at it, it is a good or bad thing going along with what you said essentially with the fact that the majority of these lads will not make it here, and it could be the undoing of their potential because of it (confidence etc shot). But basically Wenger calls these lads up very, very early to train regularly with the first team. Wilshere himself was jumped straight up to reserve football a mere quarter of the way into last season and training with the first team.

Yes it helps with the development for us selfishly, but it means their heads are turned away from competitions like the Youth Cup from the get go, plus tiredness etc coupled in. More in the line of it lessens that competition, affecting the development of other lads both in our Youth team that are toiling and plying their trade there, and further afield those at other teams whom aren't competing against the best our team has to offer.

On the 'rape the rest of Europe' point, it is a fair one to raise and it is gutting for me to see lads leave us at a young age before realising their potential and that is at a much smaller less affecting scale than it is compared to these teams we aquire our lads from, so I can echoe the sentiment there. But I will wager you, that with everything Wenger and his cohorts have set in place at this club and most importantly his faith in raw talents, provides a oppurtunity for the better lads to thrive and those not quite up to scratch and learn and then ply their trade elsewhere. I forget exact numbers, but we easily have the highest number of prospects brought through plying their trade in league football, kudos to Brady, Wenger, Rowley and co. The benefit of Wenger's school of thought clearly aids the majority, but I understand that is robbing other teams of potential hometown heroes of the future. Toughie, and I'm obviously bias in my support of the youth policy though.

Poor night for BOD & Rooq but a good night for our Spurs contingent.

Not really, they played AWFUL stuff. One of the worst games ever IMO.

But what's the old saying about playing badly and winning? I've heard it used about your lot often enough over the years!

Anyway, if we played badly (Working again so missed the game. SOOOOOO glad when this new job starts..) the how bad were the barcodes? I mean...they let Jamie O'Hara score!

and for the record, that's ANOTHER spurs game ending 2-1 (safest bet of the season so far...) and five games now with just one defeat.

Big Dave wrote:Poor night for BOD & Rooq but a good night for our Spurs contingent.

Good night really!!

Talk around the ground last night that Magilton is on his way soon! dont usually want a boss out, but he is really out of his depth and constantly blaming the players when they lose is not the way forward and he tears into the players and never blames himself, even though he constantly picks a different team every game!!! with 3 strikers out last night, he left a striker on the bench!! and played a midfielder upfront, was very very bizzare, be surprised if he is still there at the end of next month, good player for Ipswich but isnt a great manager and has the worst record for a town manager in a loooooooooooooong time.

Better lucky than good.

Garibaldi wrote:But what's the old saying about playing badly and winning? I've heard it used about your lot often enough over the years!

Anyway, if we played badly (Working again so missed the game. SOOOOOO glad when this new job starts..) the how bad were the barcodes? I mean...they let Spurs score!

Corrected

The Real JK wrote:

Garibaldi wrote:But what's the old saying about playing badly and winning? I've heard it used about your lot often enough over the years!

Anyway, if we played badly (Working again so missed the game. SOOOOOO glad when this new job starts..) the how bad were the barcodes? I mean...they let Spurs score!

Corrected

exsqueeze me....only Wigan have stoped us scoring so far this season (Ok, Boro was an own goal but still...)

When your lot can afford to waste £70 million in a single summer - or can actually win a trophy - I'll be happy to consider your footballing opinion relevant

Another part of Arsenal's youth policy that I don't like is how they take advantage of the laws in Spain which prohibit a player under 18 from signing a pro contract. I think in Britain the age is 18 and is why Boscott was able to join Spurs and how we lost Defoe, both for (low) nominal fees. Cesc Fabicasc is the best example of this. Simon Jordan kicked up a fuss when he lost Boscott and is now leaving football as a result, although I welcome this news I can't disagree with him. These sorts of things are killing football in my opinion, the rich get rich and the poor get poorer.

We've got a young lad of 16 called Jonjo Shelvey who is meant to be the next big thing for us and has already started a few first team games and set up the first goal of the season, no doubt he would of disappeared before he turns 20 and probably to West Ham as he's from Romford. It's like in today's football every club has it's place in football unless they have some sort of sugar daddy. Jonjo's uncle drinks in the Liberal Club near the valley and is a decent guy though!

It's not just Arsenal, Chelsea also are just as bad as are a host of other clubs. I wonder how many of these players could of played for their country if they had the right exposure to the first team.

Scott Parker and Shawn Wright-Phillips are different examples, young players raised by the club who then leave for the money due to short-term mentality of agents who don't mind sacrifice the player's careers for a quick buck. I understand that players want to test themselves but surely in the example of Parker he could tell he wasn't going to get many games when Lampard and Makelade were there?

I know a lot of fans mock clubs for 'buying the league' but in my opinion stealing players for pennys is a far worse crime than paying a fee that the clubs agree on. I would probably stop going to football if my club were to win trophies in that way. But then again, the rules are not being broken and that's the wider issue.

I assume you mean John BOSTOCK. The inital fee for him was quite low but with massive prospective add ons and sell on clauses - that's the bit Jordan didn't bother to mention. For a player of that age and at that level the likely overal income from him is at a pretty good level (it's a couple of million I think), especially when you consider we spent no more than that on the more proven and experienced Tom Huddlestone, Chris Gunter, Wayne Routledge, Ben Alnwick, Michael Dawson...

The initial fee and these MASSIVE add ons can raise it to £2.5m. The main point was that Palace didn't want to lose him.

The positive thing is that Platini is at least very hot on getting it sorted in terms of protecting the clubs these players are being swiped from. Whether he actually has a clue in terms of actually doing something worthwhile, rather than just using it to get his name around and boost his ego is another matter. If we want more competitive football, and ridding of the tiers the poaching of players at an age where they cost little needs to be eradicated as much as the 'buying of the league' as you mention. Opposite scales but both as damaging as each other. The positive of the system Wenger uses for our club is that it allows us to compete with the spending of the others, but fans have been won over and bought into the irony of it all as if Arsene's policy is honest and good compared to the big spenders. At least with big spending clubs are compensated and then the money works it's way down through buying of replacements etc (not defending this either when it involves the tapping up of players as well). It seems fan's honestly think that Arsenal as a club won't spend the bigger money when the stadium debts are fully paid off, and forget that the real reason for the support in Wenger's policy is that it has secured CL every year, plus the bonus of profits (mainly from ticket sales straight into Fiszman and co's pockets), and allowed the fan's to be comforted because we get to see all of these hot prospects so are convinced to keep faith for just another year.

It is so hard to be critical (hence my long mumbling diatribe), because I support the club, Wenger and in turn his policy. But in turn that means I am hypocritically supporting the evils of that policy as mentioned and that does feel awful when thinking what it imposes. But while I appreciate the sentiment, you couldn't give up supporting Charlton . Arsenal could sell out to Vince McMahon and host WWE events every Thursday, and ploy money into developing the next Gene Snitsky...I'd be there with my John Cena wrist bands. I don't mean to say I go hand in hand with everything the club and board want me to, but more that we (the British) follow our teams regardless and find new ways to show our support when the going gets tough and thats a credit to this country.

You raise an excellent point when referring the difference between say in our case Theo Walcott and say Kyle Bartley. Theo did come very very early in his career so of course is a stupid one to raise, but the fee Southampton has recieved for him has compensated for his loss, where as Bartley came from Bolton for barely a fee when he could have stayed, developed and made his name and then eventually joined at say 23/24 for a decent fee that suited Bolton and the players next step in his career.

The worst case in recent years has to be Jon Obi Mikel. I know Lyn Oslo wasn't exactly where he was developed from the get go, but for Manure to get more cash in compensation for his not signing for him than Oslo got for actually developing and then losing the player is beyond a joke.

But like I say, Platini has all the talk (and really hates Arsene for some reason), so if he has the balls to back it up we could see something coming to fruitation. More than likely he'll just stick to his soapbox like Blatter, pick up his wages and do nothing. Hey, reminds me of most Premiership footballers.