Mr Torrie Wilson wrote:

zhukov wrote:anyone being negative about this obviously didn't watch the complete and utter clusterfuck that was 2002/2003, because quite frankly, this show shit over anything they did in that period

Wrestlemania 19? Rock vs Austin, Michaels vs Jericho and Angle vs Lesnar? You need to lay off the crackpipe if you think this years was a better show.

Also, Summerslam 2002 (Rey vs Angle, Benoit vs RVD, HHH vs HBK, Rock vs Lesnar, Edge vs Eddie, Jericho vs Flair) and Survivor Series 2002 (Victoria vs Trish, Los Guerreros vs Benoit/Angle vs Edge/Rey, and the first Elimination Chamber) were also amazing shows, with a notable mention to Vengeance 2003 (Undertaker vs Cena, Eddie vs Benoit, Angle vs Lesnar vs Big Show, World's Greatest Tag Team vs Mysterio/Kidman).

Mr Torrie Wilson wrote:

zhukov wrote:anyone being negative about this obviously didn't watch the complete and utter clusterfuck that was 2002/2003, because quite frankly, this show shit over anything they did in that period

Wrestlemania 19? Rock vs Austin, Michaels vs Jericho and Angle vs Lesnar? You need to lay off the crackpipe if you think this years was a better show.

a main event that will be remember for a bodge job (and I will use that, because apparantly it is more than acceptable to slag the fuck out of MITB for a couple of blown spots that have no significance, but it is ok to gloss over a show closing bodge of epic proportions that will be the only thing people ever remember from this show)

Wrestlemania 19 wasn't a bad show by any means, but good God it was dull, much like Wrestlemania 20 the next year, a few good/great matches surrounded by complete and utter boredom does not work at Wrestlemania.

And a fucking dead crowd (yes the crowd this year was dead for the WWE title match)


Undertaker vs HBK is miles better than anything on 19

Hardy vs Rey was a massive disappointment (especially given their Smackdown main event was crap)

the Undertaker fiasco was typical biker undertaker crap

the tag title match was a rush job

HHH vs Booker T was awful (probably worse than the HHH match this year)

Austin Rock was pretty decent, but was the worst match between the two

it is great to pick at things, but in 2002 and 2003 the product was absolutely crap, bar the in ring work of give or take the Smackdown 6, and a few entertaining people on the roster (Booker/ Goldust, Cena, Matt Hardy) there was really no reason to watch


They got lucky with a great Summerslam 2002 (helped by the pairings of the Smackdown 6) and there was scattered good/great matches on the shit PPVS (with Vengeance 2003 having enough other harmless stuff to make it a very good show)

To criticise that period based on the in-ring product is insane. The company was loaded with good to great workers during that period, moreso than they are now. The overall product was shit because the creative direction was shit. Still is.

If you were bored by Wrestlemania 19 then I don't know what to say to you. I don't see how you couldn't have been more bored by this years event. There was more of a reason to watch in 2002 than there is now imo.

Lackluster show overall but Taker/Michaels was great. Easily the best non gimmick match of the last 8 WM's.

As for this debate going on. I'm in agreement that WM IX is the worst. Just a crap event with nothing truly memorable other than Bobby Heenan riding a camel backwards.

The Phenom wrote:Lackluster show overall but Taker/Michaels was great. Easily the best non gimmick match of the last 8 WM's.

As for this debate going on. I'm in agreement that WM IX is the worst. Just a crap event with nothing truly memorable other than Bobby Heenan riding a camel backwards.

I dont think it was better than Angle and Michaels from 21. That was non gimmick too.

Outlaw2x4 wrote:

The Phenom wrote:Lackluster show overall but Taker/Michaels was great. Easily the best non gimmick match of the last 8 WM's.

As for this debate going on. I'm in agreement that WM IX is the worst. Just a crap event with nothing truly memorable other than Bobby Heenan riding a camel backwards.

I dont think it was better than Angle and Michaels from 21. That was non gimmick too.

Thats the good thing about opinions, everybody has one

Personally I disliked the first 2 mania's, mind you WM9 was pretty shite so I'll go with that! I really liked WM19.

This years?? HBK-Taker was outstanding, Hardy vs Hardy was solid, MITB bar a couple of botches was its usual self (still cant understand having Mark Henry in there), diva battle royal was a joke..fucking pointless, JBL v Rey...while I'm glad Rey won it deserved longer than 21 seconds. The 1 on 3 match was pants up until Steamboat and Jericho..the Dragon can still go! Edge v Cena v Show wasnt too bad, but I found 3H vs Orton a disappointment, should have went longer and not closed out the show.

The thing that really irked me about WM25 was having to sit through 10+ minutes of Kid fucking Rock would rather have seen Bourne v Swagger for the ECW belt. Also was pissed off at not getting to see Morrison n Miz v The Colons

"Pretty shite" is the most generous description of Mania 9 I've ever heard!

As I suspected, utter shite apart from HBK v Undertaker. I was gobsmacked when HBK kicked out of the first tombstone.

PS: Matt and Jeff have absolutely ZERO chemistry when wrestling against each other.

Anyone notice Piper swearing one after the other?
Same with Matt, he didn't swear but he communicated with Jeff so loud that the cameras picked it up a little.

Terry Silver wrote:
PS: Matt and Jeff have absolutely ZERO chemistry when wrestling against each other.

Well to be fair it's not like they've ever feuded before so how could anyone have known? It's like Triple H now being married to Stephanie and winning the World Title or trying to get Big Show or Mark Henry over or Shelton Benjamin in a ladder match or even Undertaker winning a match at Wrestlemania - you've got to keep trying new things in this business, you know?

Well they did have a feud, the match at Vengeance 01 was utter shit.

Amazing.

Damn, there's no emoticon that's smashing it's head into a wall.

Oh dear...

Here you go

And now we officially have that smilie!

The show wasn't that great, but not horrible. I might've graded The Legends vs. Jericho a bit high, myself, but I loved it. The only part I didn't like was Snuka in the match, but Piper didn't look bad, he was just obviously out of shape and was winded within 2 minutes. But he didn't look that bad.

But basically, I think that over half the matches broke around 3 stars, for me, with HBK/Undertaker getting near 5. To me, that's pretty successful and a good enough show. It's certainly better than some Manias, based on the HBK/Taker match alone. But the rest of the show was pretty good, I enjoyed it.